Debate: Bro. Eli Soriano to Church of Christ pastor: Stand firm on what you said, fight like a man!

By Jeffrey Eugenio

It was a debate of more than four hours. But the longer it lasted, the starker the contrast of the pair's knack in the Bible appeared, aside from the obvious disparity of each one's demeanor - Eliseo Soriano or Bro. Eli of Ang Dating Daan (The Old Path) remained incisive and valiant the whole time; while Eusebio Catarinen, representative of a Visayan-based Church of Christ, resorted to dirty tactics and gross slurs.

Distance is not a hindrance. Bro. Eli Soriano, presiding minister to the MCGI, (left) debates with Eusebio Catarinen, a Church of Christ representative, through the help of satellite services. More than 50,000 spectators from 1,281 satellite locations spread over the globe witnessed the face-off (Screen grabbed from debate's live streaming)

The pair argued over the proposition "Resolve, that Jesus Christ is the founder and the owner of the church according to the Bible." Bro. Eli, presiding minister to the Members Church of God International (MCGI), stood on the negative side while Catarinen on the negative.

The debate took place on February 7, 2014 at 7:00 p.m. replacing the supposed-to-be scheduled Worldwide Bible Exposition of The Old Path program, a question and answer symposium whose main host is Bro. Eli.

Satellite services bridged the clash; whereas Bro. Eli was in South America while debunking the case of challenger Catarinen, who, on that time, was at The Old Path Chapter in Guihulngan, Negros Oriental, Philippines. More than 50,000 spectators from 1,281 satellite points across the Philippines and the globe witnessed the face-off aside from the unrecorded number of internet viewers.

That same night, the hashtag #DebateBroEli became an overnight Twitter trending topic.

The discussion started at around 7:00 p.m. (PHT). The two agreed on a cross examination type of debate where each had three sets of 20-minute stand and 15-minute interpellation. Guihulngan City ex-mayor Simplicio Villegas Mijarez, a Catholic, served as the moderator while Ms. Janice B. Bulandres of New Apostolic Church and Ms. Roejen M. Tejamo, a Born Again, helped as timekeepers.

As expected, Bro. Eli was able to dispose the case proposed by Catarinen. After the debate, Catarinen's unnamed colleague asked Bro. Eli for a round two but details are yet to arrange.

Some of the highlights of the said debate can be read below from the first affirmative to the last negative speech and closing:

First affirmative

In his first "constructive" speech, instead of building his case, Catarinen started a "straw man" argument by attacking statements Bro. Eli didn't raise. The challenger addressed Bro. Eli's videos on YouTube as his reference but without further disclosing or showing the source to the audience. While refuting Bro. Eli, he also accused the MCGI of not providing him the equipments he needed (i.e. whiteboard, marker). The moderator then warned Catarinen for his unlikely opening for Catarinen was like a soldier making a fuss while demanding weapons from his opponent.

Mr. Simplicio Mijarez (left) serves as the moderator while Eusebio Catarinen of Church of Christ (standing), together with his unnamed colleagues (right), argues that Christ owns the church. Catarinen goes to The Old Path chapter in Guihulngan, Negros Oriental for a debate with Bro. Eli Soriano last Friday. (Photo credit: Bro. Jessie Asong)

Later, Catarinen argued that Christ owns the church through the notion that Christ spoke His own words or did things (i.e. building the church) apart from what God had instructed. He claimed that Moses had spoken what God told him to say to the Israelites but in his own words as an example.

Interpellation time came and Bro. Eli shook down Catarinen's case despite the latter spending more than four minutes of scanning his Bible, checking his cellphone once in a while, and asking help from an unnamed colleague.

Citing John 12:49, Bro. Eli asked, "Christ said, 'For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.' Does He speak of His own?"

"Not at all times," Catarinen replied. "There are times that what comes out of the Lord Jesus Christ's mouth is not from the Father."

When asked for Christ's statement supporting his claim, Catarinen again wasted more than four minutes of time searching the Bible until he read Luke 22:42 aloud, and the time ran out.

First negative

In his rebuttal speech, Bro. Eli answered the cases raised by Catarinen. He exposed the so-called non sequitur (it doesn't follow) fallacy Catarinen committed saying, "In the principle he knows, whoever built (e.g. church, edifices etc.) is also the owner. That is wrong."

The international preacher then expounded that God should be credited as the absolute owner of the church; that Christ was appointed by God as the president unto the whole household of God which God built (Hebrew 10:21; 3:1-4).

"The honor of owning the house (church) belongs to God," Bro. Eli said and cited I Timothy 3:15. "That is why [the church] is called the church of the living God."

Bro. Eli read John 5:19 and emphasized that though Christ built the Church on earth, He was only following the instruction of the Father in heaven.

"The Son was acting at the pleasure of the Father. Even in teaching, Christ spoke what only God told," said Bro. Eli.

Later, he addressed the falsity of Catarinen's usage of Luke 22:42 in which Catarinen inserted irrelevant arguments. In Luke 22:41-42, Bro. Eli said that the scenario was a prayer. "Of course, it will come from His own words. However, even in prayer, what Christ wants to happen is the Father's will and not His own."

Aware of the scope, Bro. Eli reminded Catarinen that the topic was about the building and ownership of the church and not prayer.

"When you pray, do you speak the doctrines to God or what you ask Him for?" said Bro. Eli while using as an example a person suffering from rheumatism. "Whenever that person prays, he prays based on the pain he feels, not from what God had dictated him to say."

Bro. Eli pointed out that in preaching, the case is different. "A preacher sent by God must speak his words, and must not diminish a word from it nor add unto the words (John 3:34; Jeremiah 26:2; Proverbs 30:5-6; Numbers 24:13)."

Afterwards, Catarinen cross examined Bro. Eli's speech but Bro. Eli easily defused every question Catarinen threw. During that time, the moderator dinged Catarinen not to confide with others when answering. Besides, the debate is only between Bro. Eli and Catarinen, not Bro. Eli versus a panel according to the signed agreement.

Second affirmative

Contrary to his proposition, Catarinen made an underhanded shift of claim during his second affirmative speech - from Christ being the owner of the church to Christ being an owner and co-owner of the church." Bro. Eli later exposed the "departure trick" of Catarinen during the cross examination.

Aside from devious tactic, Catarinen resorted to insulting when he accused and turned to MCGI audience saying The Old Path is where evil people walked in.

"Will you keep to the old path that the wicked have trod?" Catarinen quoted the content of Job 22:15 without mentioning the book, chapter nor verse. He claimed that what's written in Job 22:15 were statements from God. Incidentally, The Old Path is also the title of the longest-running religious program in the Philippines hosted by Bro. Eli.

Bro. Eli contested Catarinen's accusation in a showdown during the cross examination, "If I read that what's written in Job 22:15 is not God's word, will you admit that you are defeated?"

"That is out of the theme. If you like, we'll change our topic," a nervous Catarinen uttered.

"That is part of the theme. You're the one who brought it yo during your speaking time. That includes in your stand that's why you are held liable in this cross examination. Do you understand (the mechanics) of a discussion? In my case, I'm not yet delivering my speech but you already attacked me early on your first stand," Bro. Eli pointed out. "Stand firm on what you said. Fight like a man!"

Upon noticing he was caught off-guard, Catarinen became evasive to Bro. Eli's cross examination. The moderator said to Bro. Eli, "He doesn't want to answer. You can change your question."

Second negative

It was Bro. Eli's turn for his second rebuttal speech. He pointed out Catarinen's audacity in using the Job 22:15 where he attributed to God the words of a foolish Elipaz (Job 22:1).

"Who is Elipaz?" Bro. Eli asked. "According to God, the accusations told by Elipaz to Job were wrong (Job 42:7). Therefore, if you accused those who are walking in the old path as wicked, then you are like Elipaz!"

Bro. Eli then elaborated the absolute truth regarding the ownership of the church. "The Church is an entity that Christ heads. He is the rock upon which it was founded." He also explained that Christ was made head of all in the Church that God owns (Ephesians 1:21-22; Colossians 1:18). The Absolute Owner of the Church is God.

"In the end, Christ will give His power over the Church to God, that God may be all in all (I Corinthians 15:24-28)," Bro. Eli emphasized. "Join the body and the head together (Colossians 1:18), and the Absolute Owner of the Church is the Father."

Bro. Eli said that, truly, God is "The Architect" and "The Engineer" of the Church of God (I Cor. 12:28, 18; Heb. 3:1) and God appointed Christ as well (Heb. 5:4-5).

"The real Owner of the Church, from its planning to its establishment to its redemption is God," said Bro. Eli closing his second rebuttal speech.

Catarinen then started asking leading questions. He asked Bro. Eli who is the Lord referred in Acts 20:28, whose blood was it, God or Christ's, and what did Christ buy. Bro. Eli quickly answered each questions making it clear that the Lord in Acts 20:28, according to original manuscripts, is God the Father, that the blood used to purchased the church was, of course, Christ's own blood, and that only the sins of the men who are in the church is what Christ particularly bought with His blood (I Corinthians 6:20). In its absolute sense, it is not the whole church that was purchased, but sins of the men inside the church, Bro. Eli answered.

"Christ is the head of the Church, and cannot buy the Church of which He is a part of," he said.

Last affirmative

Catarinen took his last 20-minute constructive speech. During his time, he sticked to circular argument claiming that Christ owns the church when He said, "my church"; and that Christ bought the church with His blood.

However, Catarinen's arguments were not able to withstand Bro. Eli's onslaught. Bro. Eli asked, "If the statement says 'my' it means the speaker is the owner, do you confirm?"

"Yes," Catarinen replied.

"When St. Paul said 'my gospel,' does it mean that it was St. Paul's (Romans 16:25)?"

Catarinen ducked the question so Bro. Eli referred to Christ's statement. "When Christ said 'my doctrine,' does it mean it's His?"

"Yes," Catarinen answered.

"What if I can read that Christ's doctrine is not His, will you accept that you are defeated, Mr. Catarinen?"

Catarinen refused Bro. Eli's point despite reading it from the Bible.

"What if I will read that Christ was already the Son of God before the earth was, will you admit defeat?" Earlier, Catarinen claimed that Christ became the Son of God only when He came to earth 2,000 years ago.

Catarinen respond, "Read it."

Bro. Eli read Proverbs 30:4 and John 17:5 disproving Catarinen's belief and exposing his ignorance in the Bible. Bro. Eli resumed his cross examination, "What I read that Christ did not redeem the Church, but the sins of men, do you accept defeat?"

Catarinen didn't answer. Bro. Eli revised his question, "Part of the church are angels, and the teachings as well, if Christ bought the Church, did he buy its angels and the teachings?"

Still, no answer from Catarinen. "Do you believe that the teachings are part of the church?" Bro. Eli asked until the time ran out.

Last negative

Bro. Eli questioned the credibility of Catarinen. "If you're the true Church, then why are you only in Negros now? The commandment is to preach the gospel unto all nations. If you are of God, why did He not give you the power to acquire even the equipments needed for your propagation?"

Bro. Eli later explained the whole composition of the true church citing statements written in I Corinthians 12:28 and Romans 12:6-8. He also said that the gospel is part of the church (Romans 12:8) and if the gospel is false, then the Church is false.

"Angels are also part of the Church in the Bible (Revelations 2:1; 22:9; Psalms 34:7)," Bro. Eli noted. "When Mr. Catarinen said that Christ bought the Church (Acts 20:28), did he buy the angels and gospel as well?"

Bro. Eli read in the Bible that the sins of men, and not the Church itself, is what the blood of Christ truly redeemed (Revelations 1:5; Ephesians 1:7).

"Instead of us, He was the one who suffered on the cross (II Cor. 5:21)," Bro. Eli said.

Bro. Eli then emphasized his case, "The true owner of the Church is God (Galatians 1:22; I Thes. 2:14:1). Christ is part of the Church."

Closing

Though in the debate he has the upper hand in reasonings, Bro. Eli gave the credit to God, "Even when we haven't yet begun, God has already triumphed. Don't insist what is wrong.... The intent of this debate is not to show that one has lost and the other triumphed, because glory belongs to God."

Also, despite the insults thrown by Catarinen to MCGI and to him, Bro. Eli chose to forgive Catarinen. He was even the one who asked for apology. "Whatever word I have said that may have offended anybody, forgive me. We are all prone to sin. Good night," said Bro. Eli.#